Know The Coin: Interview with Komodo White Paper Co-Author
Hey there! This is ChangeNOW, a leading instant crypto exchange service, and welcome to our very own Know The Coin show, where we interview the representatives of all the wonderful cryptos in the space. This episode’s guest is a writer and educator, the author of the first original Komodo white paper, Siddhartha, who was kind enough to join us here and share some info on the current situation of Komodo and their future plans.
The first question is our elevator pitch. Explain like we’re 5 about Komodo in a couple of sentences.
Most platforms today think everyone is going to want to use one large platform. A lot of people think that Bitcoin is going to be the first world’s cryptocurrency, or that Ethereum is going to be the world’s smart-contract machine.
Komodo’s perspective is different. We believe that people will want to have their own blockchains to use in communities of various sizes, even small communities. People may even want to use blockchains among groups of only a few individuals. In all these cases, people will want to develop and innovate with their blockchain on their own. The Komodo project serves the big challenge of this desire: when you want to have a decentralized blockchain among a small group of people, you need that blockchain to be secure. Komodo takes the power that secures the Bitcoin blockchain and recycles that onto smaller, independent blockchains. With Bitcoin backing up your independent blockchain, you can play with it easily and update it really quickly, and your independent blockchain remains secure.
So, what Komodo allows you to do is get your own blockchain in a short time, but then again, it also allows for transferring value around.
Exactly! Rather than blockchain-centric, we’re asset-centric. For example, let’s say I’m developing a digital-land type product, and I’m using blockchain technology. We can compare this to Ethereum’s “Decentraland” project — a very popular concept. In this product, we have digital plots of land and users can build additional assets on top of this land. Users can buy and sell these digital properties, and they can also make entertainment and other features that are tied to these digital properties. For example, a digital property could have a gaming center, or a theme park, or a music concert hall, etc. on top of it that visitors can come to see and experience.
With this type of product, there is a challenge if you are building on Ethereum: you are locked to the Ethereum blockchain and you can only use tools that Ethereum gives you. Anytime you want to change the core, underlying nature of your blockchain asset, you have to contact the Ethereum team and wait for them to update the Ethereum blockchain technology. If you want to leave Ethereum, it is a rather large mess; your assets are tied to the Ethereum blockchain and it is not easy to leave.
On Komodo, you are in a much better position. You build your assets and other properties on top of your own independent blockchain, based on the Komodo framework and backed up by Bitcoin, and you can then update the core functionality of your blockchain quickly and easily. Anytime you want to update whatever is not working for you, you simply do so. You can also share that update with other Komodo-based blockchains, if you choose, and you can adopt suggestions and changes from other Komodo-based blockchains. Also, if you decide Komodo isn’t working out for you, you can just disconnect your independent blockchain from the Komodo ecosystem altogether and go elsewhere. And it’s not all that difficult.
So, you are basically taking the best of both worlds?
Arguably, yes. It is an evolution of a blockchain technology.
Ok, thank you! Would you mind telling our listeners a couple of words about yourself, your background and team?
Sure! I’m a published author and artist. I did business school at Carnegie Mellon, but I didn’t finish the degree, because I decided that college is not worth the debt. But CMU was a great school. I also published a young adult novel, called “Westley: a Spider’s Tale.” I’ve always been very comfortable with computers, and I’ve learned through time teaching at universities how to take complicated things and make them more simple to understand. These are the skill sets that have proved useful to Komodo. For example, I wrote their first full white paper.
To understand how the Komodo team came to be, it all started with one of our superstar developers. His name is James Lee (this is an anonymous name; he keeps his personal details private). He’s been in the blockchain space since mid-2013, almost 6 years. He discovered crypto during the initial Bitcoin boom and began inventing in the space. Before blockchain, he had 20 years of experience with the C programming language.
When he discovered blockchain, he had 2000 dollars that he wanted to personally invest. He was so talented with blockchain, he quickly grew both his own networth and the networth of the projects that he leads into the high millions of dollars. At the height of the 2017/2018 bubble, the networth of the projects he leads was well into the billions, though I believe it’s back down into the tens or hundreds of millions now.
More importantly, he understands blockchain technology in a way that only few people do. Because of his aptitude for blockchain technology, a community of other talented developers have gathered around his ideas. We don’t know anything about him personally. He simply writes effective and innovative code, and says why he thinks his ideas are worth following. He stays away from politics, and from personal stories.
About a year and a half ago, when I first discovered Bitcoin, I had a really intriguing conversation with James. I asked him some hard questions — more philosophical in nature — and his answers were always surprising. I wish I had a copy of the conversation, but I’m afraid I’ve lost it. Anyhow, his answers were so intriguing, I decided to become a part of his team, and that is how I came to where I am now.
It is also interesting, as I see from your community, when some figures remain anonymous, it leaves a lot of intrigue for people, but eventually they start getting angry at the person who stays anonymous — why do you have to keep this a secret, why do you keep us waiting to know who you are. And the fact that entire community respects James’s wish to stay anonymous is also really great. And the fact that James has managed to amass such a wealth — of knowledge, of money, of accomplishments — while remaining anonymous, is also something to be proud of as a community, and something to admire as someone watching from the sidelines.
The thing is that James’s code speaks for itself. As governments become more involved in the blockchain space, Komodo is taking steps to update accordingly. James’s plan is to continue remaining anonymous. He simply puts out ideas and code in the way he thinks best. People can adopt and follow his innovation as we choose.
There are some similarities here to the Red-Hat and the Fedora communities. Fedora is an operating system that is used among people who value security. It is an open-source project and it simply adopts the best ideas. Red Hat is a company that follows things from a legal perspective, and Red Hat takes from the Fedora repositories whatever ideas they think best for the Red Hat company. The relationship works out very well for Red Hat and Fedora, and we think the relationship between the legal entity, Komodo, and James’s contributions can benefit similarly.
How exactly did the Komodo come to fruition?
Before Komodo existed, James originally just wanted to innovate with blockchain technology. For example, he was probably one of the first 10 or so people to perform an atomic swap.
An atomic swap, by the way, is a new technology that Komodo specializes in, and it has become a staple in the Komodo development efforts. Allow me to briefly explain an atomic swap, and why it’s useful.
To explain an atomic swap, we first have to explain the problem that an atomic swap solves. The problem lies around the challenges with centralized exchanges. With a centralized exchange, when I want to trade my Bitcoin and sell it for some other cryptocurrency, for example, Litecoin, I have to go to a centralized exchange. I send the exchange my Bitcoin, and once they are in possession of it, they give me an IOU asset. Then I try to trade this IOU for other IOU’s owned by other users. In this case, I was to trade my Bitcoin IOU for a Litecoin IOU that someone else has. When I’m done, I hand my IOU statements back to the centralized exchange, and they give me my actual Bitcoin and Litecoin so that I can leave.
In this situation, the centralized exchange is acting as a middleman. And this brings back all the forms of corruption, hacking, and other issues that can occur when someone else holds your money. You don’t own your coins during the exchange process. You hand them to the exchange. You just hope you’ll get them back.
Atomic swaps get rid of that. They allow you to trade your Bitcoin directly with your trading partner — for example, with a person who is holding Litecoin — without ever having to lose control over your funds. If anything goes wrong during the trading process, the atomic-swap code ensures that both sides get a refund, and it also ensures that neither side can take advantage of the other.
James was one of the first people to perform an atomic swap. He did his first proofs of concept in 2014, and in 2016 he had the entire atomic swap process automated on the terminal.
His interest in atomic swaps derived from a deeper mission that he is trying to fulfill: to connect independent blockchains together. He believes that connecting independent blockchains is an inevitable requirement for technological progress, and he wants to be a part of this human achievement.
He began his innovative efforts in the NXT community, and he relied on the NXT blockchain platform in his early endeavors to create interlinking-blockchain technologies. However, the NXT platform was not operating in a manner that would allow him to fulfill his dreams. At one point, his frustration with NXT came to a head when the NXT core developers created a paywall around James’s technologies without warning. This caused James’s NXT-related technologies to break.
After this occurred, James decided that he needed to start his own project from scratch, and that it must be built from the ground up to facilitate independence among blockchains. This is Komodo. Atomic swaps are a key part of Komodo’s mission, but the Komodo mission is much larger. We are building technology that allows independent blockchains to work together, to develop rapidly, and to securely trade and interoperate.
What about James’s Declaration of independence for blockchain technology? This is what started the Komodo project, right?
Yes. In, I believe, February 2016, James made a formal “Declaration of Independence.” The idea was to declare that the asset holders of an asset chain should be free from any particular blockchain. If you own a digital asset, that asset belongs to you, not to the developers of the blockchain that secures the asset. Here it is now:
We the asset holders hereby declare our independence from any single blockchain.
An open and jointly developed specification on cross-chain atomic asset transfers will be developed. Any current or future blockchain is invited to join. Each blockchain will need to not only promise protections for asset holder interests, they need to live up to them. Otherwise, all the assets will simply move to blockchains that do.….
This is an interop standards effort and it needs to be blockchain agnostic and asset centric.
James ‘jl777’ Lee
This declaration was made in 2017, and it is motivated by his experiences with NXT in 2015.
The idea is to create an asset-centric ecosystem, rather than a single-blockchain centric ecosystem. This allows me to innovate with my blockchain with less concern over the interests of a large corporation, such as Ethereum. For example, Komodo would allow you to create a small blockchain that serves only the interests of a Homeowners’ Association, where neighbors must all put data into the blockchain each day to show that they’ve properly mowed their lawn and moved their trash cans to the proper place on the street for pickup. This data could then be hashed and inserted into Bitcoin, serving as an immutable record for all time showing how each neighbor performed (or did not perform) their share of the neighborhood duties.
This type of blockchain is virtually impossible to build on a platform such as Ethereum, because Ethereum cannot support such a large number of transactions.
Also, if the neighbors and the Homeowners’ Association want to update their blockchain to adopt new ideas and functionalities, if they are on Ethereum, they often must wait for the Ethereum team to update the Ethereum blockchain. However, with Komodo’s asset-centric ecosystem, they are more quickly able to update, enhance, and even share their blockchain technologies.
What about governance? Who runs the show in the Komodo? Is it truly decentralized, or there are people who make core decisions?
First of all, decentralization is a goal. It is an ideal that we all strive to achieve, and no one — not even Bitcoin — has achieved perfect decentralization. Today, on a scale from 0 to 10 – 0 being centralized, 10 being fully decentralized — Bitcoin is perhaps only at a 4 or 5.
In the life cycle of any particular economic ecosystem, the initial ownership of assets can be heavily decentralization. Say, for example, we have 1 million people, and each person owns one US dollar. This is a heavily decentralized ecosystem.
As people buy and sell with their money, the money will gradually centralize. Over time, the ownership of the majority of the dollars will wind up in the hands of around 100 people.
This is an economic principle, and you can see it in all forms of nature. It is called the Pareto Principle.
In Bitcoin, there are 6 mining pools that control the entire history of Bitcoin. If you want to compromise how Bitcoin works, you only have to compromise these 6 mining pools.
These six mining pools are all heavily invested in Bitcoin, and it is generally in their best interests to keep Bitcoin functioning honestly. But to say that Bitcoin is fully decentralized is not accurate.
Even among people who own large quantities of Bitcoin, the majority of Bitcoin coins are owned by about 100 people, and most of these people are those who got in very early, caught the vision, and held.
This same principle is true both for other blockchains, such as Ethereum, and even for Komodo. In Komodo, we have elements of decentralized power, so that one group cannot dominate. But there are pockets of centralization, just like there are in Bitcoin and Ethereum. To counteract this, we split the control between the asset holders and the decision makers. The asset holders do a yearly election where they elect what are called “notary nodes.” The vote is stake-based: the more KMD you have, the larger your vote is. There are 64 notary nodes, and these people protect the most recent history of Komodo. For each transaction in the Komodo community, the users in Komodo rely on the notary nodes for protection for anywhere from 20 minutes to 40 minutes. The notary nodes hash all the data and push it into Bitcoin. Once it is in the Bitcoin history, the Komodo-ecosystem transaction no longer depends on anyone in the Komodo community for protection. It only depends on Bitcoin.
By having the stakeholders separate from the notary nodes, and by having the ultimate transaction history backed up by Bitcoin, we have an effective defense against corruption and malicious self interest.
It is important to keep in mind that notary nodes cannot perform a transaction on behalf of a user, nor can they even touch the users’ money. It is not like a centralized banking system, where the bank can decide who has how much money, and when or why. Rather, the notary nodes can only take the transactions that users perform, hash them, and push them into Bitcoin. Notary nodes cannot make up false information about currencies in Komodo. However, notary nodes do have one power: the right to refuse service to anyone. This is important for the notary nodes to have, because if an independent blockchain in our ecosystem is discovered to be doing something highly unethical, such as human trafficking or engaging in other illegal activities, the notary nodes need to have the right to refuse service to that person.
In this sense, it is similar to a telephone service provider. The telephone service provider doesn’t make up phone calls for you, nor do they pretend to be you on the phone. Rather, they simply provide you with a service. As long as you are respectful of the service, there’s really no further issue. Only if you do something illegal with a telephone would a telephone service provider refuse you service.
This is how it functions with Komodo, although, it is arguably even more secure than a typical telephone service provider, but enough on that for now.
When you talked about using small blockchains for separate communities, it sounded like a sort of a more usable and accessible version of a smart contract.
Yeah. So, smart contracts are not a new concept. They’ve been around since as early as the 70’s or 80’s. The reason why they were not immediately brought into public use cases is that there was no way to ensure the smart contracts were being honestly performed. The amazing thing that Bitcoin brought to the table, the consensus mechanism , changes that. The Bitcoin consensus mechanism allows you to perform a smart contract with untrusted people, and you can verify for yourself that the contract executed properly.
Ethereum was the first one to say , OK, let’s go grab these ideas and tie them to a single blockchain. We’ll build a virtual machine that allows everyone to process smart contracts together, all on their own computers.
And so this amazing innovation, enacted by Ethereum, allows you to process smart contracts with disparate people and parties all around the world in a secure manner.
There are some downsides to the Ethereum model. For example, to run your smart-contract code in the Ethereum virtual machine, everyone has to use only an approved programming language. This programming language is called, Solidity. The Solidity programming language is rather new, untested, and it’s got a high rate of error, compared to older languages, such as C and C++. But on the whole, the Ethereum Virtual Machine can do an okay job for a small group of people.
Once you want to deal with a large group of people, Ethereum can’t help you. A single blockchain is always bound by two limitations: size and speed. Everyone running on the same blockchain has to run the same code, all transactions that are performed have to be verified by everyone, and all data that is downloaded to one main machine (setting aside “lite” technologies) must be downloaded by everyone else. When you have a large community of millions of people, these limitations become a serious challenge.
Ethereum’s blockchain size is now 1.5 terabytes in size. That is huge. When I first joined the blockchain industry 2 years ago, Ethereum was about 200 gigabytes. For Ethereum to grow from 200 gigabytes to 1.5 terabytes shows that it is growing too fast, and it’s becoming a serious issue for hard-core developers who are trying to build on Ethereum. A lot of that 1.5 terabytes of data is just junk.
Also, Ethereum can only perform about 15 transactions per second. This is nowhere near enough to be able to serve millions of people.
Smart contracts on Ethereum are currently very limited. There are attempts to fix this, but progress so far has been shaky, and the bottom line is that Ethereum was improperly designed from the get go.
And what about Komodo?
Komodo does smart contracts differently. Because you can tie an asset — and thus its data store and its transaction-speed requirements — to an independent blockchain, the sky is the limit. You only need to download the independent blockchains that you find relevant. You only have to share transaction-processing throughput with other people who are part of your local community. If your community grows in size to where one independent blockchain becomes cumbersome, you can split the blockchain into two, three, or as many blockchains as you like. Each of these independent blockchains is backed up by Bitcoin, so you get the best of Bitcoin security and the best of a small, decentralized, blockchain community.
Smart contracts on Komodo also interact differently than on Ethereum. With Ethereum, you have to write all code in Solidity, and everyone has to process that code through the Ethereum virtual machine. With Komodo, because independent blockchains are separate, you can have your arbitrary code written in whatever language you want (though we recommend C/C++ for now), and you can have that arbitrary code written into the actual engine of your blockchain. There’s no need for Solidity, nor for the Ethereum virtual machine.
This allows Komodo to handle situations which Ethereum cannot. Take CryptoKitties, for example. CryptoKitties is a popular decentralized application on Ethereum. In 2017 and 2018, it became so popular, it overwhelmed the entire blockchain platform because people were buying and selling these CryptoKitties so fast. I tried to make some transactions during that period of time, and it took me nearly 24 hours just to send money from one exchange to another.
With Komodo, if you were to build a popular dApp such as CryptoKitties, it could explode with popularity and no one else in the Komodo ecosystem would experience even a moment of delay, and people who were not interested in CryptoKitties would not be required to download its data.
We’ve already proved that Komodo can currently handle 40,000 transactions per second, and with our partnership with Amazon Web Services, we should easily be able to scale into the millions of transactions per second.
As I got it, you offer that every single product is run on a separate blockchain without interfering with others, right?
Correct. Blockchains can share information with each other, as well. When one blockchain has a transaction, another blockchain can see this transaction being performed, if necessary, and the second blockchain can perform another transaction based on the observation.
Now, I would like to talk about the designated PoW algorithm, which is, I guess, a trademark feature of Komodo. You’ve said every transaction is protected by Bitcoin hash rate. How exactly does the Bitcoin network come into play? How does it influence Komodo mining? Someone has to sign the transactions, that happen either on every several blockchains, or, say, cross-change transactions. Could you please explain?
Let’s say I use an independent blockchain in a Komodo ecosystem. I perform a transaction on this blockchain. This transaction goes to a mempool, where miners can mine the transaction, collect a reward, and add the transaction to the blockchain history. Miners just want to make money. If they are honest, they want this blockchain to be stable, so as to protect the blockchain’s history and to ensure that users can trust it.
The majority of miners just want a blockchain to function in this fashion. They want the history to be trustworthy, and they want people to use the blockchain regularly, so that the blockchain has value, and thus the miner’s investment in this blockchain has value.
The challenge comes in when you have a miner that wants to take advantage of everyone else.
The way a blockchain works, all that is required is that a blockchain be properly mined, and that this blockchain be supported by the majority of mining power on the blockchain network. There are some more technical details involved here, but we’re simplifying.
If a cheating miner wants to take advantage of a blockchain, all they have to do is provide the majority of mining power on the network. So, they can make a false history of a blockchain and push it into the network. This allows a cheating miner the ability to perform transactions and then erase them at will, simply by using superior mining power to write and erase history at their convenience.
On a small blockchain network, this is very easy to accomplish. A cheating miner only needs a few powerful mining machines to write and erase the blockchain’s history at their chosen times. However, as a blockchain’s network grows, it becomes more and more expensive to provide the majority of mining power to a blockchain network.
For Bitcoin, at this point, if you wanted to attack the blockchain network you would need around a half a million dollars’ worth of electricity, and you would need full access to a nuclear power plant.
Not many people have access to this kind of power, and those who do, do not want to gain a reputation for attacking Bitcoin.
This gives Bitcoin a high level of security.
For a small blockchain in Komodo, for the first ten to twenty minutes after a transaction is performed, it is backed up only by Komodo technology. There are different types of this initial security, and this small level of security is enough to allow users to function on the blockchain. However, this initial level of security is not the ultimate goal. Within ten to twenty minutes, we hash the entire history of the independent blockchain (hashing is a process of condensing large amounts of data down into a very tiny final form, that is unique and recognizable for security purposes). Once the data is hashed, we write that hash into the Komodo blockchain. This provides a first step up on the security ladder, and at this point, it is usually safe for an independent blockchain to act as though the transactions on the independent blockchain are moderately secure.
This is not the end of the security process, however. Now, every ten to twenty minutes, we take the entire history of Komodo, hash it, and write it into Bitcoin.
Once that hash is in Bitcoin, every independent blockchain in the Komodo ecosystem has its history backed up by Bitcoin. To break the independent blockchain’s transaction history, a cheater would have to attack the independent blockchain, Komodo, and Bitcoin itself. This is not an easy task. The transaction history of these independent blockchains is even more secure than Bitcoin itself, in a way, because a cheater has to break three chains, including Bitcoin, to succeed.
You’ve said that the whole size of Komodo blockchain with the mempool is a couple gigabytes. It does occupy the space on the Bitcoin blockchain, right?
Yeah, but not in that sense. You don’t need all the data to be held within Bitcoin itself. You only need the hashes to be in Bitcoin. The rest of the data you keep locally. Independent blockchains keep their own full data, everyone keeps the Komodo main chain — as it is the conduit to Bitcoin — and that’s it. With that data, you can prove your transaction history whenever you like. No need to download the data of any independent blockchain that is not of interest to you.
Now, I’d like to talk about Z-transactions. Up until February this year, there will still be private transactions on the main Komodo chain, but then if I am correct, the private transactions on the main chain are being ceased. However, they will still be allowed on side-chains. So does that mean there will be more cross chain Z-transactions in the future?
For those who don’t know, a Z-transaction is the ability to move coins from one address to another without leaving data in the public domain for later analysis. Many people think of it as a high level of privacy security, because as long as everything is done properly, there is nothing about the transaction left in the public domain. Z transactions differ from Monero-type transactions, because Monero-type transactions just mix and tumble coins to the nth-degree. In Monero, the data is still in the public domain, and as computers get more powerful, detectives can eventually unravel the story of the blockchain. In the case of Z-transactions, there is no data leftover, so once a transaction is made, the story ends there.
In Komodo, we realized that people tend to want privacy on independent chains without needing it on the main Komodo chain. For this reason, we removed Z-transaction functionality from the Komodo main chain. Z transactions are still functional for any independent blockchain that desires it. Pirate, or ARRR, is a popular privacy-based independent chain in our ecosystem.
Keep in mind, all this stuff — Z-transactions, privacy, etc. — was mostly invented in 80s and 90s. The industry as a whole has not even close to adopting the many ideas people came up with back then.
Right now, in Komodo, independent developers can feature privacy on their own blockchains. This allows the user to transfer assets on-chain in complete privacy. For transferring between one blockchain to another, the user can rely on additional tools, such as Tor, a VPN, etc.
Have you had any use cases so far? As Amazon Web Services that you’ve mentioned so far, that are already employing the protocol.
The integration with Amazon Web Services is coming up. We partnered with them last year. This is going to allow people who are not so technical to work with their own blockchain. We are hoping to make the creation and maintenance of an independent blockchain super simple. Eventually, it should be as simple as buying a computer and turning it on — swipe up the credit card, open up the box, push the button, and it works. Amazon is helping Komodo to have the necessary hardware and infrastructure to maintain this system.
Komodo is doing the same thing that Steve Jobs, Microsoft, and others did with personal computers : turning giant, complicated technologies into user-friendly utilities for everyone. The process of simplification will take a while.
Right now, the users using Komodo are similar to the users who first experimented with microchips and other small personal computers. They are smart nerds who are not afraid to figure out technical questions. As time goes on, we expect independent blockchains to become more and more user friendly, and Amazon is providing us with the tools to make that happen.
One of the independent projects I’m really excited about is the project that is run by the former Microsoft Vice President of Technology, Mike Toutonghi. His blockchain project allows people to develop identities in anonymous situations. I don’t want to say too much as I don’t want to portray their ideas incorrectly. The basic idea is that you create an identity that is tied not to your personality, but to the decisions you make. This allows you to build up an identity over time based on decisions, rather than on a government ID. This is useful in an anonymous situation.
Let’s talk about the market for a bit. What do you think is happening with the market right now during this massive cryptowinter and do you think it will clear up anytime soon and maybe there are any projects you have faith in?
When the popularity of a technology rises, people get super excited. And then as reality sets in, the market excitement goes back down the mountain. It could take 15 years to realize what creative ideas are viable in our current market, and which ideas are not viable.
A lot of the market bubble from 2017 and 2018 might have come because users who were new to blockchain technology were investing rapidly and perhaps unwisely, simply based off the idea that Bitcoin had gone from $0 to $20000 USD.
As the dust is settling and the hangover from that bubble ends, people are looking at the actual blockchain technology and finding out what it can do.
We expect that among the successful blockchain use cases that are currently being pioneered, there will be a movement towards secure independent blockchains that can be used by groups of people of all sizes, large and small. As people recognize the value of this idea, we expect that excitement over this type of technology will drive further use cases, adoption, and innovation.
I don’t want to make price predictions for Komodo. I can’t predict the future. But I do believe that technologies similar to Komodo will eventually find a strong and long-term position in the market.
What do you think about Komodo’s situation right now? I know that you guys have a lot of planned for the future, so maybe you have some thoughts which you can add on top of what you’ve already said about that.
I don’t want to give away anything about our future. Our marketing team is trying very hard to switch to a situation where we talk only about what we have done, rather than what we “will do.” In general, Komodo is in a very good spot. Our accomplishments with atomic-swap based decentralized exchanges is particularly exciting for our future. The partnership with Amazon Web Services allows us to make technology that is easier to access and to use. We feel very good about our current position, and we are generally in the lead among those whom we consider to be our competitors.
Hope you’ve enjoyed this interview — stay tuned for more!